20160904 Log

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[18:02:41] <paroneayea> #startmeeting [18:02:49] <paroneayea> oh, there's no chaosgoblin :) [18:02:58] <paroneayea> well, consider that line to be the "meeting strated" line :) [18:03:11] <larjona> Hi [18:03:17] <paroneayea> hey, larjona too! [18:03:24] <paroneayea> that makes three of us. a good start! :) [18:03:55] <paroneayea> how about we Just-In-Time some meeting topics :) [18:04:02] <paroneayea> * Pubstrate / ActivityPub updates [18:04:14] <paroneayea> * When's paroneayea working on MediaGoblin again???? [18:04:42] <paroneayea> * GSoC wrapup [18:04:52] <paroneayea> anything else? :) [18:05:01] <larjona> 1.0? [18:05:09] <paroneayea> * 1.0 ! [18:05:12] <breton> o/ [18:05:21] <paroneayea> hey breton ! yay, we're at 4 [18:05:24] <breton> yeeey, i am almost not late [18:05:28] <paroneayea> :D [18:05:42] <paroneayea> breton: want to add any topics? [18:05:56] <breton> paroneayea: nope [18:06:07] <paroneayea> cool, ok [18:06:21] <paroneayea> #topic Pubstrate / ActivityPub updates [18:06:51] <paroneayea> as I think everyone here knows, I've been focused on getting the federation spec work tsyesika and I are editors on for the W3C, which is ActivityPub [18:07:10] <paroneayea> we basically want to get to Candidate Recommendation state by the end of TPAC, if not before [18:07:24] <paroneayea> maybe not everyone knows what tpac is :) [18:07:33] -*- breton doesn't know [18:07:57] <paroneayea> https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/ [18:08:05] <paroneayea> so TPAC is the big w3c technical conference thing [18:08:12] <paroneayea> I'm going to be attending in-person [18:08:20] <paroneayea> it's in Lisbon [18:08:51] <paroneayea> so, the good news is that AcitvityPub is moving well along. We just put out a new Working Draft a week ago: https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ [18:08:58] <paroneayea> earlier in the month, my friend Amy Guy stayed with us for a week [18:09:10] <paroneayea> she's also part of the w3c group (currently works at the w3c part time even) [18:09:15] <paroneayea> we knocked out a ton of updates [18:09:27] <paroneayea> including more cleanly separating the client-to-server from the server-to-server stuff [18:09:36] <paroneayea> anyway, the good news is: the spec is in very good shape [18:09:47] <paroneayea> the bad news is: the deadline is tight, and *serious*. [18:10:00] <paroneayea> the group only is chartered to be around till end of this year [18:10:22] <paroneayea> if we want the spec to go through and not just be a "note", we have to get everything to that point by year's end, and that's a lot of process [18:10:23] <paroneayea> and... we need implementations [18:10:42] <paroneayea> luckily, there are two implementations in progress: Amy's site runs one, and I'm writing Pubstrate. [18:11:12] <paroneayea> http://dustycloud.org/tmp/pubstrate_2016-08-17.png [18:11:22] <paroneayea> I can now log in and post notes [18:11:29] <paroneayea> it's very similar in design to pump.io [18:11:41] <paroneayea> but written in guile scheme, and a bit more demo'y [18:11:55] <breton> so, no integration with mg yet? [18:12:03] <paroneayea> not yet. so [18:12:09] <paroneayea> I think porting GMG's federation code to this [18:12:11] <paroneayea> will not be hard. [18:12:23] <paroneayea> I'd like to have that done by end of 2016. [18:12:52] <paroneayea> that's a good tie in to the next topic, but maybe there are questions :) [18:13:21] <paroneayea> (I'm hoping to release a Pubstrate 0.1 release in the next few weeks so people can try it) [18:13:55] <paroneayea> https://github.com/cwebber/pubstrate it's currently (unfortunately) hosted on github. I'll move it to gitlab before release. [18:14:12] <paroneayea> that was originally for perceived-synchronization-with-group reasons, but I no longer believe that matters. [18:14:26] <paroneayea> any questions? or should we move on [18:14:30] <paroneayea> sorry for textwall :) [18:14:48] -*- breton has none [18:14:51] <paroneayea> ok :) [18:15:46] <paroneayea> #topic When's paroneayea working on MediaGoblin again???? [18:15:57] <paroneayea> good question/topic! :) [18:16:06] <paroneayea> I've been noticably absent, because of all the above, and tight deadlines [18:16:30] <paroneayea> I'm hoping that by late october I'm back on GMG to a reasonable degree. [18:16:59] <paroneayea> which is maybe also related to 1.0 [18:17:11] <paroneayea> maybe we should switch to that topic since what else is there to say on this one ;) [18:17:23] <paroneayea> and we'll do gsoc after [18:17:33] <paroneayea> #topic 1.0 [18:17:52] <paroneayea> 1.0! Right around the corner, several months ago, I thought, but then this happened... [18:18:24] <paroneayea> the main thing that needs to happen next is that we need to review, make sure it's stable, and merge tsyesika's federation code. [18:18:36] <breton> isn't it merged yet? [18:18:36] <paroneayea> tsyesika: maybe you might have comments on what you remember the current state of that is? [18:18:42] <paroneayea> is it? [18:18:46] <breton> i thought that all federation stuff is in [18:19:04] <paroneayea> nope :) [18:19:23] <paroneayea> it's still unmerged. [18:19:31] <tsyesika> nupe it's not merged yet, there are a few little tasks that need finished and then a full review [18:19:33] <breton> is the branch with federation in the main repo? [18:19:42] <tsyesika> nope, it's on my notabug [18:19:50] -*- tsyesika finds the link [18:19:58] <tsyesika> https://notabug.org/Tsyesika/federated-mediagoblin [18:21:07] <paroneayea> so [18:21:16] <paroneayea> if someone wants to do review and help this move along towards merge [18:21:22] <paroneayea> that *can* be done without me, I think [18:21:31] <paroneayea> though it would be helpful if there's a list of "things that need to be done" [18:21:33] <paroneayea> do we have that tsyesika ? [18:21:37] <breton> tsyesika: which branch? [18:21:54] <breton> i'd love to do review [18:21:58] <tsyesika> paroneayea: i can make one up and post it to the dev mailing list later :) [18:22:18] <breton> in fact i'd do one if i knew that it needs reviewing a lot of time ago [18:22:20] <tsyesika> breton: "federation" i believe [18:22:33] <paroneayea> tsyesika: that would be great [18:22:40] <paroneayea> breton: that would also be great! :) [18:22:56] <tsyesika> before a review those little tasks need fixing, some a serious but quick to do but they definitely definitely need doing [18:24:52] <paroneayea> I want to add one more topic [18:25:20] <paroneayea> * Making breton co-maintainer (at least while SocialWG stuff is wrapping up)? [18:25:31] <paroneayea> not to switch topics now [18:25:34] <paroneayea> just queue it :) [18:26:12] <breton> i have a question about 1.0. What about deployment stuff? [18:26:21] <paroneayea> breton: it's a good question... [18:26:27] <breton> we had that as a target during that campaign [18:26:29] <paroneayea> breton: we need packages for distros. [18:26:52] <paroneayea> breton: we never hit that goal [18:26:56] <paroneayea> http://mediagoblin.org/pages/campaign.html [18:27:01] <paroneayea> but nonetheless [18:27:05] <paroneayea> it's still important to me [18:27:11] <paroneayea> that was going to be at the $100k [18:27:12] <paroneayea> level [18:27:15] <paroneayea> well [18:27:27] <paroneayea> we have another target [18:27:30] <paroneayea> which is premium hosting [18:27:37] <paroneayea> ironically, deployment has been a pre-requisite for launching that! [18:27:42] <breton> oh, yeah, that one too [18:27:51] <paroneayea> so we never officially hit "deployment". [18:27:57] <paroneayea> but [18:28:02] <paroneayea> so I can't give details [18:28:21] <paroneayea> there's some vague possibility of funding debian packaging but I think it's low chance. [18:28:28] <paroneayea> but regardless [18:28:31] <paroneayea> I think it needs to happen. [18:28:40] <paroneayea> simonft got debian packaging pretty close already [18:28:52] <paroneayea> I have a guix package near-done [18:28:54] <larjona> Debian freezes 5 november [18:29:01] <paroneayea> I was working on making things more easily packaged before I got caught up in all this stuff [18:29:15] <paroneayea> larjona: it's unlikely we'll hit that freeze by my own work, but maybe if someone else can help [18:29:31] <paroneayea> I feel like our build system, in trying to make things easier, has also made things a lot harder [18:30:07] <paroneayea> probably the autotools part, but definitely the npm/bower part [18:30:25] <paroneayea> though, I hear jquery 2.0 is packaged in debian now [18:30:29] <breton> actually i never figured that part out [18:30:37] <breton> because i haven't done js in ages [18:31:16] <paroneayea> I think it should be torn out and replaced with something simpler: a directory where either distros can put javascript files, or we can pull them down and unpack the prebuilt ones [18:31:22] <paroneayea> via a script [18:31:52] <paroneayea> I think every javascript dependency we use already has prebuilt versions anyway [18:32:09] <paroneayea> so if we let distros provide the full version, or for developers let them run some script to get something [18:32:14] <paroneayea> or at the very least [18:32:15] <breton> what do others do? [18:32:19] <breton> for example, wordpress [18:32:21] <paroneayea> not make the bower stuff a core part [18:32:27] <paroneayea> breton: I don't know about wordpress, it's a good question [18:32:52] <paroneayea> breton: it's hard to answer, because what examples of web applications aside from wordpress do you see successfully packaged with distros anyway :\ [18:33:42] <breton> i also wonder about, say, django-cms [18:33:47] <paroneayea> even the php things are getting just as complex to deploy now [18:33:54] <paroneayea> breton: yeah a good question [18:34:01] <paroneayea> we should probably research before we make decisions [18:34:12] <paroneayea> probably we should try to package, and see how hard our stuff currently is, and figure out how to change things around that. [18:34:31] <paroneayea> I'll be interested in working on this once I'm done with my socialwg focus-mode madness [18:34:44] <paroneayea> even php is hard now with Composer [18:34:50] <paroneayea> https://lwn.net/Articles/670752/ [18:34:59] <paroneayea> see the owncloud / debian rift [18:35:36] <breton> what about guix package? [18:35:42] <paroneayea> breton: that one's already almost done :) [18:35:45] <paroneayea> I packaged all our deps [18:35:53] <paroneayea> and I was using it [18:35:59] <paroneayea> I just wasn't doing the final mediagoblin package [18:36:00] <paroneayea> excepting the javascript stuff [18:36:05] <paroneayea> heh! [18:36:23] <paroneayea> I have no idea how the js stuff will be done. we might need to provide another repo that does "evil" things and pulls in the pre-minified js pakcages [18:36:28] <paroneayea> though! [18:36:30] <paroneayea> oh, good news [18:36:40] <paroneayea> we had a "packaging npm for guix stuff" gsoc student [18:36:50] <paroneayea> I was technically a mentor, though the student did quite well without my help [18:37:07] <paroneayea> so, it turns out packaging jquery is insane, but hey, some things can be packaged using their tools now :) [18:37:15] <paroneayea> so there's hope? maybe? :) [18:37:32] <breton> to meet the "premium hosting" target, we don't really need debian packages, we might provide the hosting with guix, right? [18:37:41] <paroneayea> I have high hopes and optimism for anything that doesn't need npm (and maybe even npm can eventually happen in guix) [18:37:43] <paroneayea> breton: yup [18:37:57] <paroneayea> no need to use debian, and I can do guix easily, even if it means mediagoblin's js deps won't go into guix proper [18:38:10] <paroneayea> we could get mediagoblin in guix proper, and provide a supplementary package that provides the js stuff [18:38:25] <paroneayea> maybe we should tear out all this js stuff. Who needs javascript libraries anyway! :) [18:38:28] <larjona> There is a sandstorm package but outdated (0.7?) If anybody can have a look at it, maybe it's easy to update it [18:39:16] <paroneayea> larjona: sandstorm support would be good... I wouldn't be using it for premium hosting I would myself run, but I would want us to be up-to-date in sandstorm-land [18:39:33] <paroneayea> breton: ugh, one more item not even on the agenda, what to do about this kombu / celery stuff :( [18:39:46] <paroneayea> breton: I have a client that paid me to do some consulting on their GMG deployment (which was nice!) [18:39:52] <paroneayea> and they got bit by it :( [18:40:09] <breton> paroneayea: yep, lets get to it in the end [18:40:12] <paroneayea> ok cool [18:40:21] <paroneayea> * kombu / celery [18:40:28] <paroneayea> one more topic to queue for later :) [18:40:52] <paroneayea> so it sounds like tsyesika will post stuff to list, breton will review, and paroneayea will come back in late october to help? :) [18:41:02] <paroneayea> and larjona will look at sandstorm state? :) [18:41:13] <tsyesika> sounds good [18:41:22] --> neiljp joined #mediagoblin [18:41:29] <paroneayea> (you don't have to do anything larjona , but maybe just nice to see what the state is !) [18:41:38] <paroneayea> though if you want to, you're more than welcome to :) [18:41:47] <breton> yep [18:41:56] <paroneayea> cool, is it next topic time? [18:42:07] <paroneayea> (I'll probably just dump these minutes on the mailing list btw) [18:42:27] <paroneayea> #topic GSoC wrapup [18:42:36] <larjona> Yes, I'll report to the list [18:42:40] <paroneayea> larjona: great! [18:43:20] <paroneayea> so saksham1115 got their video subtitling stuff in [18:43:20] <-- afuentes left (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [18:43:43] <paroneayea> looks like results are announced [18:43:53] <paroneayea> we passed saksham1115 :) [18:44:11] <paroneayea> thanks to saksham1115, and to breton for co-mentoring (and doing bulk of mentoring, TBH!) [18:44:45] <paroneayea> saksham1115 wrote an update to the mailing list... [18:44:52] <paroneayea> maybe I should pull it up [18:45:09] <paroneayea> http://lists.mediagoblin.org/pipermail/devel/2016-August/001465.html [18:45:10] <paroneayea> there we go [18:45:40] <paroneayea> breton: do you think we could/should maybe get this merged in for 1.0 also? [18:46:24] <breton> paroneayea: i'll review more thoroughly and tell after that [18:46:46] <paroneayea> breton: cool, if you think it's close [18:46:54] <paroneayea> tag for 1.0 on the tracker please! [18:47:06] <paroneayea> cool, any questions? [18:47:10] <paroneayea> should we move on? [18:47:26] <paroneayea> congrats again to saksham1115, and thank you, from GMG land! :) [18:47:26] <breton> yep [18:47:44] <paroneayea> #topic Making breton co-maintainer (at least while SocialWG stuff is wrapping up)? [18:48:12] <paroneayea> so, breton has already been doing a lot of work keeping things moving smoothly in mediagoblin land... more than me while I've been in focus on the socialwg! [18:48:17] <paroneayea> and long-term, I'm not going anywhere [18:48:31] <paroneayea> but I think it would be a good idea to officially appoint breton co-maintainer, at least for now [18:48:46] <larjona> +1 [18:48:46] <paroneayea> we'd have to make it official with GNU too, but how do people feel? [18:48:54] <paroneayea> +1 here too :) [18:49:03] <tsyesika> +1 [18:49:12] <breton> yay! [18:49:14] <paroneayea> let's make sure breton +1's ;) [18:49:23] <breton> +1 :) [18:49:24] <paroneayea> whew that was the most important vote :) [18:49:30] <paroneayea> ok, so I'll start that process :) [18:49:34] <paroneayea> thank you breton ! [18:49:45] <larjona> Thanks breton [18:50:22] <paroneayea> whee! [18:50:28] <paroneayea> ok, next topic [18:50:29] <breton> that's a good present for my todays birthday :p [18:50:35] <paroneayea> :D [18:50:38] <tsyesika> happy birthday breton :) [18:50:39] <paroneayea> happy birthday breton! [18:50:52] <larjona> happy birthday! [18:50:52] <paroneayea> . o O (I have just the ascii art to close today's meeting...) [18:51:07] <paroneayea> #topic kombu / celery [18:51:21] <paroneayea> breton: want to explain the state of affairs? [18:51:45] <breton> yep [18:52:01] <breton> celery dropped sqlalchemy as a broker [18:52:07] <breton> with a bunch of other brokers [18:52:20] <breton> and they support only 4 brokers: http://celery.readthedocs.io/en/master/getting-started/brokers/index.html [18:52:35] <paroneayea> I mean, to be fair, sqlalchemy was never a "great" broker, but it made it easy for people to get started [18:52:41] <paroneayea> esp for small installs [18:52:47] <breton> the reason is that it was hard to maintain and had some issues [18:52:51] <paroneayea> yes [18:53:03] <paroneayea> we could do a few things: [18:53:21] <paroneayea> - maintain the broker ourselves? (yuck, maybe temporarily?) [18:53:40] <paroneayea> - switch from celery to an actor model system... hm, that's maybe too long term :) [18:53:52] <paroneayea> - write a broker that uses unix named pipes? [18:54:00] <breton> https://github.com/celery/celery/issues/3274#issuecomment-228324848 if someone's interested [18:54:31] <paroneayea> one more [18:54:43] <paroneayea> - we could switch to recommending one of the official brokers [18:54:53] <paroneayea> like rabbit/redis/etc [18:55:06] <breton> i'd chose the last one as the simpliest one. [18:55:40] <breton> the only thing that bugs me is uncertanty around redis [18:55:59] <paroneayea> breton: what's the uncertainty? [18:56:21] <breton> paroneayea: the bug ^ initially was about issues with redis broker [18:56:29] <breton> paroneayea: and they wanted to remove it too [18:56:38] <paroneayea> oh right [18:56:45] <breton> but people from redis came and said that they are willing to work on the issues [18:56:50] <paroneayea> breton: maybe we should choose rabbitmq then [18:57:05] <paroneayea> breton: it's something to research, for now, I think [18:57:24] <breton> paroneayea: yes. I don't thing that it's going to be hard, because it's well packaged everywhere [18:58:00] <paroneayea> breton: rabbitmq you mean? [18:58:20] <breton> paroneayea: yes [18:58:50] <paroneayea> breton: ok, I'm ok with going rabbitmq [18:58:54] <paroneayea> it will take work [18:59:29] <paroneayea> here is our ticket https://issues.mediagoblin.org/ticket/5464 [18:59:42] <paroneayea> I'll add a comment summarizing our thoughts from the meeting [19:00:23] <paroneayea> and... I think that's it from the meeting right? [19:00:34] <larjona> Yes [19:00:52] <paroneayea> ok, in that case :) [19:00:58] <paroneayea> HAPPY BIRTHDAY [19:01:02] <paroneayea> () [19:01:02] <paroneayea> .-----||-----. [19:01:05] <paroneayea> |'---______---'| [19:01:08] <paroneayea> |. .| [19:01:11] <paroneayea> _| '----__----' |_ [19:01:14] <paroneayea> ( '--__________--' ) [19:01:17] <paroneayea> '---__________---' [19:01:20] <paroneayea> BRETON! [19:01:24] <paroneayea> thanks for coming, breton, larjona, tsyesika :) [19:01:40] <paroneayea> #endmeeting